According to the 2005 Martyrologium Romanum today is …
1. Commemoratio sancti Iosue, filii Nun, servi Domini, qui, cum Moyses manus ei imposuisset, repletus est spiritu sapientiae et post Moysis mortem populum Israel per Iordanis alveum in terram promissionis mirabiliter introduxit.
Anyone want to take a crack at this?
Today is also the feast of St. Egidius, called St. Glies, Abbot.
Coat of Arms by D Burkart
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since Sat., 25 Nov. 2006:
Commemoration of Saint Joshua, son of Nun, servant of the Lord, who, when Moses imposed hands upon him, was filled with the spirit of wisdom and after the death of Moses, marvelously led the people of Israel through the riverbed of Jordan into the land of promise.
Wow! That is as smooth and as accurate a translation as one might wish for, mea quidem sententia.
Thank you!
Right on, Father S!
(Without looking at the comments.)
Commemoratio sancti Iosue, filii Nun, servi Domini, qui, cum Moyses manus ei imposuisset, repletus est spiritu sapientiae et post Moysis mortem populum Israel per Iordanis alveum in terram promissionis mirabiliter introduxit.
The commemoration of holy [or: Saint] Joshua, son of Nun, servant of the Lord, who, when Moses had imposed his hands upon him, was filled with the spirit of wisdom and, after the death of Moses, brought the people of Israel miraculously across the bed of the river Jordan, into the promised land.
Yes, this is my son’s name day. He was born on Christmas Day, A.D. 2007, and we named him Joshua Emmanuel. Please say a prayer for him.
Sancte Iosue, ora pro nobis!
My name day! Sweet! I needed a pick-me-up and this did it.
For the old calendar:
I guess they do not talk about Gideon anymore.
I’m trying very hard not to pat myself on the back for being able to get a reasonably good translation in my head; not as smooth or accurate as Father S, but then again I haven’t studied Latin for a few years, and besides which I’m Byzantine Catholic.
Thank you, Father Z, for these occasional exercises!
(also without looking at the comments)
The commemoration of Saint Josie, son of a Dominican servant Nun, here with Moses’ hands imposed, is replete with the drink of sapience, and after Moses the death of the people of Israel in a beehive of the Jordan introduced the admirable promise into the land.
Today, the archdiocese of Los Angeles celebrates on its liturgical calendar the memorial of Saint Vibiana, patroness of the LA archdiocese. Her relics are kept at the cathedral of Our Lady of the Angels in downtown LA.
Don’t confuse her with the other Saint Bibiana whose feast is on December 2.
Today’s Saint Vibiana is not listed on the Martyrologium Romanum but she does have the title of “saint”, which means she can be universally venerated.
I grew up in the LA archdiocese and have a personal devotion to her, but I am currently at a parish in another diocese.
This is no obligatory memorial on the general calendar. So, can priest outside of the LA archdiocese celebrate Mass in honor of Saint Vibiana today?
Commemoratio sancti Iosue, filii Nun, servi Domini, qui, cum Moyses manus ei imposuisset, repletus est spiritu sapientiae et post Moysis mortem populum Israel per Iordanis alveum in terram promissionis mirabiliter introduxit.
Commemoration of holy Joshua, son of Nun, servant of the Lord, who, when Moses imposed hands on him, was filled with the spirit of wisdom, and after the death of Moses marvelously introduced the Israelite people through the stream of Jordan into the land of promise.
imposuisset is PLU-perfect, folks! [And now you can explain to us why it is subjunctive!]
Father G: don’t confuse her with the other Saint Bibiana whose feast is on December 2.
I’m glad you mentioned that because for a moment I almost did.
So, can priest outside of the LA archdiocese celebrate Mass in honor of Saint Vibiana today?
Bearing in mind that almost everything in the LA diocese constitutes a liturgical abuse, I think that you are probably exempt from potential ecclesiastical censure if you celebrate Mass in her honor. Just don’t let Mahony find out.
Jeffrey Pinyan: imposuisset is PLU-perfect, folks!
There is effectively no longer a pluperfect in modern American English.
Example: The pedestrian died after he was ran over by the bus.
In fact the last time I used the word “pluperfect” was at my high school prom when I met a girl (not the one I took to the prom) and said: “Why, Olivia, you have the most pluperfect …. eyes I ever saw”. I actually didn’t say “eyes” but I did say “I do” four years later.
Righteous Joshua is also commemorated today on the Byzantine Calendar.
I always love the grade school joke, “What Old Testament prophet had no parents?” Joshua, of course, he was the son of none (Nun).
Fr. Z – I believe it’s subjunctive because it’s used in a cum-clause.
Roland – I still use the pluperfect on occasion, and I think it’s worth translating it as such.
Wow. I haven’t received a gold star since grade school. I’d like to take this moment to thank the Academy and Fr. Niemann, God rest him, who taught me Latin in high school.
Of course there’s still a pluperfect in American English. There are plenty of work-arounds (many with their own nuances) that perform some of the same functions; but American English is full of alternate ways to get all sorts of grammar done.
And if you really really love descriptive grammar, there’s always The Cambridge Grammar of the English Language, all 1860 pages of it. (Only 168 dollars on Amazon, 144 dollars used!) The distinction between gerund (which English really doesn’t have) and gerundive (which we do) is a beautiful thing. :)
Commemoratio sancti Iosue, filii Nun, servi Domini, qui, cum Moyses manus ei imposuisset, repletus est spiritu sapientiae et post Moysis mortem populum Israel per Iordanis alveum in terram promissionis mirabiliter introduxit.
Memorial of Saint Jesus, son of Navi and servant of the Lord, who, when Moses had lain hands upon him, was filled full of the Spirit of Wisdom – and, after Moses’ death, wondrously led the people of Israel through the dry bed of the Jordan into the promised land.
I’m tempted to say “led the people of Israel dryshod through the Jordan,” since so many of our Liturgical hymns say this… but, that would be fudging a bit! And forgive the archaicisms, but I love “Jesus, son of Navi,” on account of how this can accent our Christological reading of Joshua’s life, as the Fathers so often did. I think it’s important to emphasize “dry bed” in this instance of “alveus,” though it can refer to containers for water or narrow things on water – troughs, tubs, baths, river beds, holds of ships, etc. – generally. I think the Martyrology’s “mirabiliter” is emphasizing the thaumaturgic aspect (as it often does) of Joshua’s life, when he led Israel across the dried-up Jordan river.
Incidentally – I wonder if Catholics know of the Miracle celebrated each Theophany (i.e., Epiphany) by the Patriarch of Jerusalem. The Patriarch goes out to bless the river and throw the cross in for the divers (many Orthodox countries bless nearby bodies of water like this on Theophany), and most years, on both the Julian and Gregorian dates for the feast, the river Jordan turns back its flow for a while!
Anglica tempori “plus quam perfectum” fruit: “After Moses had laid hands on him…”.
Κυδος et gratias RP “S” et causa traductionis et in altero foro litterarum sapientiae plenarum ago.
Salutationes omnibus.
Does anyone know of plans to produce an official English translation of the Roman Martyrology?
@Benjamin Newman — From the current Martyrology for September 26:
Commemoratio sancti Gedeonis, ex tribu Manasse, qui iudex fuit in Israel et, cum signum roris in vellus descendentis a Domino accepisset, in fortitudine Dei, are Baal destructa, de manu inimicorum populum Israel liberavit.
As for the grammar, “imposuisset” certainly is pluperfect. I was going to make two comments on the translation, but thought I’d see what other thoughts were. The first was on this word–more on that in a moment. The second was on introducere. I wondered how others would translate it. This is one of those words that often gums up the move from a literal to a smooth English translation.
As for the pluperfect, I chalk this up to working in several languages each day. While there is certainly a precise translation, it has become more and more acceptable in casual speech in English and Spanish–with which I work most–to simplify past tenses. At first, this drove me crazy. I had years of Latin and Greek, along with a smattering of Hebrew and Arabic. When one learns those languages for reading, precision is a prized almost above all else, much like showing one’s work in high school trigonometric proofs. When one learns a language, for speaking, however, one learns quickly that he often sounds pretentious in speaking with those who simply do not understand proper grammatical use. I still use “who” and “whom” in English and hate to end my sentences in prepositions. In Spanish, when I use the subjunctive pluperfect, I get glazed over looks unless I am speaking with a native English speaker who studied Latin before studying Spanish. Since the illiteracy is generally higher in Spanish speaking countries than in English speaking countries, this is to be expected. So, I suppose that this long explanation is simply to say that, while I understand how the pluperfect works, I have been retrained in bad grammar that facilitates better communication. Before someone tells me how lamentable this is, I already know. It drives me crazy.
Also, to Tom in NY, is that an ultimate sigma or a c with a cedilla? I wonder if my symbol font does the same thing. Thank you, though, for the kudos!
I think there is a simple solution to the plu-perfect: one might simply say “after Moses imposed hands upon him” instead of “when Moses imposed hands upon him” because:
cum imponeret = quando imposuit
cum imposuisset = postquam imposuit
PaterAugustinus – is there a particular significance to “Navi”, apart from it being the rendering of the Greek?
@Father S:
That’s the final sigma, rather than “regular” sigma or “sickle” sigma; it’s ampersand sigmaf semicolon in UTF; regular sigma would be ampersand sigma semicolon. Microsoft Greek fonts and “Gentium” follow the character map, but they only come through as question marks in this situation.
Salutationes tibi.
I’m really rusty and just getting back into reading some Latin, so I totally forgot that it was pluperfect. Thanks for the catch.
Overall, this is why priests should just all know Latin. That way, there would be no need for time in translation.
Father S.
Can. 249 — Institutionis sacerdotalis Ratione provideatur ut alumni … linguam latinam bene calleant …
callere = to be well versed in; bene callere = to be very well versed in (as in becoming callous)
But then, if everyone knew Latin, what would happen to WDTPRS? Would it become QSVOH? (Quid sibi vult oratio haec?)
To Jeffrey Pinyan:
I don’t know how far I’d push it (I don’t recall the Fathers mentioning it, since there was not much need for Hebrew scholarship in the Church), but I always think of the Hebrew “Navim” (or “Nevaim,” etc.) when I hear “Jesus of Navi.” The Hebrew “navim” = “prophets” (the word “Tanakh,” as a collective term for the Hebrew Bible, is a quasi-acronym for “Torah, Navim and Khetuvim” – Law, Prophets and Writings). Our Lord, of course, was far more than a Prophet… but, He did take to Himself the title often used by God to address a prophet: “Son of Man.” Also, through Mary’s line, Jesus is a Son of prophets… first and foremost, the prophet David, who was also more than a prophet; he was king as well.
Anyway, I like “Jesus Son of Navi” for all the ways in which the name points forward to Christ. The Fathers certainly did mark upon how appropriate it is that Joshua – a very powerful type of Christ (i.e., coming after “Moses” – the Law – he leads the people into the promised land… St. Jerome also speaks of Joshua’s celibacy as a foreshadowing of the New Covenant, since childbearing was the “type” of the blessed life in the Old Covenant) – should share the same name as our Lord.
Father S: “I still use “who” and “whom” in English and hate to end my sentences in prepositions.”
But Father, there is a big difference between those two rules! “Who” and “whom” are old distinctions in English that are slowly being lost in all but the most formal speech, but were once ubiquitous and seen as required.
The rule against ending sentences in prepositions is a much later invention. According to my research it was first strongly propounded as a suggestion by Latin-focused Restoration writers (e.g. Dryden &c) as an improvement over the Elizabethan/Jamesian writers (e.g. Donne, Shakespeare, etc). It was only later Victorian grammarians (pedants?) who decided that this prohibition should be elevated to the status of “rule.” And generations of English teachers followed dutifully.
It should be clear from a review of the greatest works of English literature, however, as well as common speech, that it is not against the natural flow or beauty of the English language to end phrases or sentences with prepositions. One would never do it in Latin (or Spanish, etc) but what does this have to do with English, which is essentially a Teutonic language?
To Pater Augustinus: Thank you. I had noted that “Navi” (in addition to being a race in that blasted Avatar film) was close to the Hebrew “Navim”, but I wasn’t sure if that was mere coincidence. Your explanation is quite nice, despite whatever back-formation might be involved.
RE: devthakur
About ending English sentences with prepositions I have only this to say: for phrasal verbs, that is one thing but for non-phrasal verbs, it is quite another.
I wonder if my intent on using the sentence you quoted was unclear. I simply meant to communicate that I tend to be a stickler for English grammar, but have found that I value communicating well in other languages over sticking to the grammatical law. I think that the reason for this is that I was raised to speak English in a very literate way whereas I speak Spanish that is far more of the street than of the written word. I think that if you reread my paragraph above, you will see that I was not intending to make the comparison that you thought I was intending to make.
It appears “son of Navi (bin Navi)” is a better transliteration than “son of Nun”. The difference is the “vav” rather than “beth” found in the word for prophet, “nabi”, pl. “nabiim.”
Salutationes omnibus.
I think that “son of Nun” is the correct translation, based on 1 Chron 7: 27. In the genealogy given there, Joshua is named as son on “Nun.” The Hebrew is “nun-vav-nun.” An exact a transliteration as possible of this is “Nun.” The same is given in Joshua 1:1.
I won’t duel with concordances at ten paces. But how do you sound Gn. 1:1 before ha’aretz? Etiam, causa finita est.
Semper salutationes.
stpetric: It would be an improvement if it were online, even in Latin. Do you (or anyone else) know if it is? I have not been able to find it and a print copy is rather expensive.
In Gn 1:1, the word is “uat,” which is “vav-aleph-tet.” I’m not sure what you are getting at, though. Are you reading the Hebrew correctly? Have you confused the “vav” and the “nun”? We certainly don’t have to duel. I can abide by the “etiam.” Simul, semper salutationes.
By the way, for all who are interested, there is a neat free program for Biblical study in Greek and Hebrew. If you are familiar with BibleWorks, it is very similar to that. You can download the program, called the “Interlinear Scripture Analyzer” at http://www.scripture4all.org.