In this time of confusion over doctrine and praxis, many people ask me in email what they can do either to maintain equilibrium, or else to “be the maquis”, as it were, and join the resistance against the liberal undermining of our Catholic cult, code, creed and identity.
Yes, I think that there should be a “resistance”, though not every one can “resist” in the same way.
The first step is, of course, to examine your conscience and GO TO CONFESSION. Only after that can you determine your best course of action.
Some of you must be engaged in this struggle, either because of your ecclesiastical office or because you have the spirit and the firepower upstairs to engage effectively. Some of you might engage on a wider scale, though your immediate concern is for your family and close circle. Some of you must not engage actively because these debates and current news upsets you spiritually and brings only confusion fear and anger to your lives.
You have to figure out on your own who you are, though I’ll remind priests out there that their souls are on the line if they either go the way of undermining cult, code and creed or, tepid, shrink from the line of fire and cower in a hole.
That said, there is one thing that everyone can and should do.
Read, review, study the Catechism of the Catholic Church.
US HERE – UK HERE (There are many editions. Look around.)
I am a huge fan of Kindles (US HERE – UK HERE), but you should also have the BOOK, the material volume which you can hold in your hand and write in. Get the book, which you can flip around in and hold spots in with a couple fingers as you cross check.
Read it. Pick it up. Read portions every day.
St. John Paul II called the CCC, “a sure reference point”.
Ignorance of the content of the Faith, the fides quae creditur, has lead to enormous problems. For one thing, it has turned lots of nominal Catholics into the dupes of liberals who are undermining the Church.
Possession of a copy of the CCC, and a solid familiarity with it, can be both shield and sword in the defense of your Catholic Faith.
Say you are living in the Diocese of Libville, where Most Rev. Fatty McButterpants
has gone off into doctrinal la la land. You are stuck in the burbs and you can’t always drive for two hours with your kids to Tall Tree Circle were Msgr. Zuhlsdorf has the TLM. Instead, you fulfill your Sunday obligation at the clustered, “Engendering Togetherness Community of Welcome” where Fr. Bruce Hugalot is busily churning out self-affirmed pantheists through sketchy preaching and dubious sacraments.
You, on the other hand, have the Catechism of the Catholic Church well in hand.
Ignorance of the Faith makes you a potential victim of the predations of the libs.
Tell me:
What would you think of a school where, in its basic chemistry courses, neither the teacher or the the students learn the Periodic Table of Elements?
What would you think of the school where neither the teachers nor the students in math courses know Multiplication Tables?
Would you go to a doctor who never undertook to learn basic anatomy? A pharmacist who didn’t learn the basics of drug actions and interactions?
How about a barber who can’t cut hair?
Would you hire a plumber who doesn’t own a wrench?
See what I mean?
Another question:
Would you respect any of the above in their fields?
The CCC puts us on a sure footing.
And this is for you libs out there:
If in reading the CCC, you find teachings which you don’t agree with, not just which puzzle you but rather which you truly reject, then there’s the door. G’bye! Extra omnes! Get. Out. There are lots of “faith communities” out there with little or no doctrine where you can be right at home. Go be happy somewhere else and leave us alone.
When you hear from the pulpit or some other place a dubious notion that rings an alarm bell, check your CCC. Then you can decide to ask Bp. McButterpants or Fr. Hugalot what gives. “You said X, but the Catechism says Y. What’s with that?”
That’s not everyone’s role or cuppa, of course. Many people will choose not to engage and, for those many, that’s a good choice. Others, however….
Along with the Catechism of the Catholic Church you can review the always dependable Roman Catechism, the The Roman Catechism: The Catechism of the Council of Trent for Parish Priests. Fathers… note the title. Do you have a copy? You should. You should know this stuff like a mathematician knows his tables. It’s basic. And it’s not optional.
US HERE – UK HERE (There are many editions. Look around.)
Also, make use of volumes of the wonderful Baltimore Catechism, which has different volumes for different ages (US HERE – UK HERE). It’s so useful, in its Q&A format. The Catechism of Pius X is also great. (US HERE – UK HERE). There are many good resources available.
However, make sure you have the Catechism of the Catholic Church.
Some might say that the older the better. Fine. But if you are in a “dialogue” with Just-Call-Me “Bruce”, you need the current official Catechism of the Catholic Church. If “Bruce” objects to anything in it, he’s toast… and he knows it, too, deep down.
Fathers, don’t be a plumber without a wrench.
Consider making an entire year of preaching based on the Catechism. Go through it portion by portion, perhaps also with a weekly parish inquiry class on its content which capable lay people might help to run.
GET THE BOOK!
Do you have the book?
READ THE BOOK!
Thus endeth the rant.
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Father- you are exactly correct. To get to the meat, you must have the milk first. The Catechism is an excellent read as a companion to daily scripture reading/ daily Mass. Once you know the what, then you can proceed to the why. Begin with the basic Thomist arguments (I love Peter Kreeft’s books), and basic apologetics. Finally, once you are pretty firm on those arguments, you can go deeper into the Summa, Aristotle, Plato, Socrates, and really beef up your knowledge. All the while, never forget to go to Confession, continue to study scripture, and enlighten yourself on the catechism.
And, of course- PRAY ALWAYS!!!!!!!
Peace.
Good rant. I go to a Catholic college in which all freshmen are required to have a CCC and read it. It makes a difference!
Yes, the Catechism of the Catholic Church is required. However, the best “boot camp” type immersion in it for lay people is to take the Basic and Advanced catechism course through the Marian Catechist Apostolate. This group is based in La Cross, Wisconsin, at the Shrine of Our Lady of Guadalupe. The Director is none other than Raymond Leo Cardinal Burke, who was asked to take it over from the late and beloved Father John A. Hardon. Lessons use the CCC plus Fr. Hardon’s last book before he died, the Marian Catechist Manual (and his own written Catholic Dictionary, which is a great read in itself). You are challenged by Fr. Hardon’s words of exactingness and clarity, and freed from worry over error because there are lesson tests and feedback support. You can go at your own pace. Spiritual practices are included, as are yearly retreats with the group and guided by Cardinal Burke.
You can’t get much better than to wrestle with the Truths of our Catholic Faith direct from the priest (Fr. Hardon) whom Pope John Paul II asked to be the Master Catechist for Mother Teresa’s Missionaries of Charity in India. Here you also support the work of Cardinal Burke and the Marian Catechist Apostolate, the beautiful Guadalupe Shrine, and their work for a permanent Fr. Hardon Center. Such a deal. I thank God for this discipline to guide me through our Catholic Faith.
And of note, I started this course out of frustration for not having any training available on Church doctrine as a mere catechism teacher in the Archdiocese of Portland, Oregon. Where to protest things like the LA Religious Education Congress? Everyone has been talking about poorly formed and bad catechesis longer than I have been Catholic, but no one really wants to do anything of substance about it. The Marian Catechist Apostolate has the answers from Fr. Hardon, who makes no excuses, and will lead you on the journey.
Yes, I have the book. An edition (with the same cover as shown in this post), which I bought in 1995 when I was still an Anglican. That book was instrumental in bringing me into the Catholic Church, with some help from Newman, and a few other writers.
I could bring few hard copy books to the city I am in now, but I made sure to bring a Bible, an EF Missal, the Commedia -and the CCC.
Portae inferi non praevalebunt adversum eam!
Vade Retro, Satana!
To hell with being on the defensive! If you’re not on the offensive, get out of my way!
I’ve heard enough horrible things in RCIA and in the Church (“It’s great that priests can’t talk about what they hear in Confession anymore!” I wish I was joking on that… Along with “Jesus didn’t multiple the loaves and fish, he got his followers to share…” THAT ONE was from a Deacon.) I wanna be the Offensive! Call out people who have had bad formation! Yes, even your Priests and Deacons! SPEAK UP!
“You are wrong, Father.” “You are wrong, Deacon.” How hard is it to say that! No excuses!
I wanna be a Conquistador! I wanna be a Crusader! The Church is WEAK!
If you’re going to be on the Offensive, you’re going to have to OFFEND Someone!
[1 Peter 3:15 – Sanctify the Lord Christ in your hearts, being ready always to satisfy every one that asketh you a reason of that hope which is in you. But with modesty [praytes – “mildness of disposition, gentleness of spirit, meekness”] and fear, having a good conscience: that whereas they speak evil of you, they may be ashamed who falsely accuse your good conversation in Christ.]
IMO this is the best copy of the CCC:
HERE
… but it’s only published in Australia. I got mine on US Amazon Marketplace for $20. It’s less than an inch thick, but has the whole enchilada, indices and references and all. Vinyl cover. I love it.
“Some of you must not engage actively because these debates and current news upsets you spiritually and brings only confusion fear and anger to your lives.” Very, very, very good advice. Fireman rarely accept help from passers-by, because amateurs DONT KNOW WHAT THEY ARE DOING and they just get hurt and make more work for the pro.s. Pray like mad, yes, but don’t engage in debates, etc., however well-intentioned you are, that others will only have to stop for and clean up. Listen to Fr. Z.
“Then you can decide to ask Bp. McButterpants or Fr. Hugalot what gives. ‘You said X, but the Catechism says Y. What’s with that?'”
Been there. Done that.
It was in confession. I figured I’d better (respectfully) get clarification what he was saying for my own sake and remind him for his sake what the Catechism said.
He informed me the Catechism was wrong.
Thank God I knew the difference between the magisterium of Pope John Paul II and the bishops he charged with writing the catechism, and that of an individual priest. I can’t imagine how deeply scandalous a willingness to openly contradict the Church in the context of a sacrament would be to the poorly catechized or a new convert.
Very good advice for us these days, in which even bishops and cardinals, among others, don’t seem to know or accept the Catechism of their own church.
@James P: I wonder which college that is.
We have been blessed with a priest who started a Catechism class in the parish several years ago. We have been reading through the Catechism of the Catholic Church and discussing it, paragraph by paragraph. Father knows his stuff, believe me. (He was educated at the Angelicum in Rome.)
We are almost finished reading through the whole Catechism! We are aiming to finish before Father heads back to Rome to further his education.
He is leaving a group of better educated Catholics who can support each other and keep an eye out for parish “problems” in the future.
It used to be that once in a while some point of doctrine would stick in my craw. I had a particular problem with some of the Marian doctrines, Immaculate Conception, etc. But I recognized that it was MY problem, not that the Church was wrong, but that I wasn’t getting it. So I gave those difficult doctrines a somewhat cool assent and trusted that in time grace would help me out. Of course God did not disappoint. Some things are still difficult, but things are much clearer now. No need to flee the Church, no need to become a heretic. It was He who helped, and still helps my unbelief.
Wise advice Father — particularly :
“Some of you must not engage actively because these debates and current news upsets you spiritually and brings only confusion fear and anger to your lives”
I have sadly seen far too many friends and strangers wrecked by a failure to understand this, turned bitter and even uncharitable by the simple misunderstanding that confronting the Devil should be avoided in principle.
The Devil always brings confusion fear and anger, even (and indeed sometimes especially) to the lives of those who confront him the most effectively, by the Grace of God, but those who are not called to such tasks should seek by Prayer and Eucharist and Love simply to seek God in their own hearts and those of others.
Spiritual Sacramental Peace in Baptism and Eucharist and Holy Matrimony and Holy Reconciliation through Confession is our general protection against his violent lies.
I recently bought the Popular and Definitive Edition of the CCC from Bloomsbury. I love how I can get straight answers about the faith in simple black and white. Not watered down sugarcoated answers.
Here are a couple of links to one-year reading plans for the CCC:
http://www.adventus.org/documents/CCC-ReadingPlan.pdf
http://www.stpatrick-kokomo.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/Catechism_Study_Guide_and_Directions.pdf
Let’s get to work.
@YoungLatinMassGuy……easy, comrade.
Our priests don’t need to be harassed by moralistic, imperious, liberal-minded Baby Boomer women. Neither do they need to be upbraided by moralistic, imperious, tradition-minded Millennial men. Surely it’s best to let bishops and priests handle this kind of fraternal correction.
Perhaps you might channel your energy into learning Gregorian chant, or if you’ve already leant it, then perfecting Gregorian chant. Or, if you’ve already perfected it (is that possible?), then go teach others to do plainchant.
If the Catechism be your main course, may I suggest a missive from Miss Manners as dessert?
Bravo, Fr. Z.
My parish priest who is traditionalist and graduated in theology knows that I am often surfing the net and peculiarly the trad websites like 1P5, remnantnewspapers, lifesitenews, eponymousflower, roratecaeli, wdtprs etc…
Since he doesn’t speak English he asked me to send him an abstract of the main ongoing Catholic actuality from these sites for example the Amoris Laetitia contoversy or the SMOM takeover by the Vatican. And indeed this much helped him to understand the mess our poor Church currently is in. And I could notice an interesting evolution in the content of his homilies in that regard since some months.
Fr.Z’s advice is the same as Bishop Reneé Gracida’s WRT the confusion today. Get informed and know primary sources.
From personal experience, I would add one more item: teach children’s Religious Education and “supplement” to official teaching material (which, unfortunately, is very meager across the board). Kids don’t have an agenda like adults do and they are typically excited not to have to listen to the PC drivel that passes as RE manuals nowadays. One of my buddies and I did this one year, and we had kids transferring to our class…and they were 2nd graders.
Great stuff!!!
As a convert, I’ve found these days of chaos particularly exhilarating in challenging me to study the documents of the faith. Have read and studied the CCC and am soon to finish the Catechism of the Council of Trent.
The advise is truly sound!
Papal encyclicals are also excellent fare. As issues arise I take a topic and follow it thru the Papal encyclicals. recent;y I did a study on Freemasonry thru the relevant encyclicals.
Another book every Catholic should have is Denzinger. Essential.
And folks….
Read the Bible! We get an indulgence for Bible reading!! No matter what else I’m reading, I keep studying the Word. St Jerome supposedly said that we cannot know Jesus if we don’t know the Scriptures!
Great advice.
I converted a few years ago, and my RCIA wasn’t as bad as some of the horror stories as I’ve heard, but it certainly did leave something to be desired. That being said, they gave every single person enrolled a copy of the catechism. My wife and I went through RCIA together and we both received a copy at no cost.
I’m definitely going to make a effort to read and consult the catechism more often.
I am currently reading Fr. John Hardon’s Catholic Catechism. I find it very readable and a good way to learn those basic Catholic concepts such as what is grace, the difference between sanctifying grace and actual grace, and so many other topics that cradle Catholics used to take for granted but those of us today need to learn who were either poorly catechised or never had the opportunity to learn the faith.
I agree w/ the sentiment of Dr Peters’ point, but feel compelled to add that when the firemen are drunk at the station and don’t even respond to the alarm and you happen to be walking by the burning home and hear a baby crying inside, ignore the advice and go get the baby.
We seem to have a lot of unattended house-fires going these days, and more and more it appears that they are caused by arsonists who also happen to be firemen…
Father my rant along the line of what is happening in holy mother church in terms of liturgical worship: I am in northern italy on a business trip and arriving this past Sunday found a church that had evening mass. A beautiful Romanesque style church perched on top of a beautiful hill with a fantastic view with a very traditional set up internally. I was met at the door by a gentleman in a nice business suit and stylish open collar blue shirt he greets me and asks where I am from, I assume he is an usher and then I am approached by a young lady asking me if I can help her bring a harp into the church (hmm?). I oblige and then go to my spot genuflect and kneel and pray. When done I sit and observe no one is genuflecting and hardly anyone is kneeling and praying but carrying on in chitter chatter. Mass starts with no hymn just harp playing and the man in the stylish suit walking out vested as the priest without genuflecting he walks from the sacristy to the altar and begins with a rather long description of the Sunday now known as Divine Mercy Sunday, why can’t just get to the mass? Everything proceeds pretty much normally through the readings and the gospel with sermon he emphasized what a blessing PF has been for the church I try really hard not tune him out at this point, at the concecration the most astonishing thing happened besides the use of a clay plate as the patten the priest does not elevate either the host or chalice and he does not either kneel or bow ala Jesuit style, also most of the congregation stands for the whole Eucharist prayer and those kneeling stand after the concecration I and 2 other kneel until the Amen. I could feel those around me staring at me like I was some form of weirdo. After the lamb of God the whole congregation joins the priest in the words said at the final elevation of the sacred species. At communion almost all partake but some actually walked to the altar where they picked the consecrated host from a little ciborium left on the altar. Needless to say I left quite perplexed but tried to focus on thanking God on being in my native land and asking Him to return my native country to the faith of our ancestors where in every church holy mass was just that HOLY.
PTK_70, You have me laughing. Yes. Sometimes “fraternal correction” is and sometimes it really isn’t, being an excuse to be cruel (why aren’t you dressed nicely like us?). Some would get my cane on the shin. Oh, I’m sorry, I didn’t see you.
Different people have different gifts, so they may evangelize in different ways. Some people have the gift of hospitality and would do more good in relaying the message of Christ over a cup of coffee than by a thousand hours of apologetics. Some people are really analytical and can construct good arguments, but are lousy dealing with people. They should write a book or start a blog. Some people have great faith, but are not disposed to talk much because of shyness. They can be very effective at prayer.
The first thing one should do is find out where their strength lies and develop that strength. While everyone should know the basics of the Faith and the CCC is a useful summary, some people will be engaged in discussions with non-believers (and, sadly, even believers) who do not accept the CCC as a starting point. One has to know when to hold ’em and when to fold ’em, when to walk away and when to run, to quote the Country song. Sometimes, one must walk away and leave room for the Spirit. If you have ever tried to discuss Catholicism with a stanch atheist, you, probably, know what I mean.
As for leaving things to the experts, well, that can be a little complicated. A fireman is a trained professional, but what if a chemist is walking by? He has adjunctive knowledge that the fireman might be able to use. What about a structural engineer? I have no formal academic training in theology (although I do have a lot of knowledge in specialized areas through extensive research), but I have expertise in historical studies, mathematics, science, neuroscience, music, and humor studies. Who should be studying the phenomenon of Holy Laughter – a theologian or me? Who should be studying the influence and development of Gregorian Chant in the south of France during the 12th-century – a liturgy expert, or me? One, often, cannot reduce these questions to a single discipline.
While a person might not be a Canonist, they might be able to answer simple, straightforward questions. Sometime, even a poor firewall is better than no firewall. If the person is aware of their limitations, which takes both self-knowledge and humility, they should stay out of getting into trouble by trying to deal with things beyond their depth. The problem is that the Internet has turned us all into pseudo-experts. In fact, there is a name for this phenomenon – the Dunning-Kruger effect [from Wikipedia]:
“The Dunning–Kruger effect is a cognitive bias in which low-ability individuals suffer from illusory superiority, mistakenly assessing their ability as much higher than it really is. Psychologists David Dunning and Justin Kruger attributed this bias to a metacognitive incapacity, on the part of those with low ability, to recognize their ineptitude and evaluate their competence accurately. Their research also suggests corollaries: high-ability individuals may underestimate their relative competence and may erroneously assume that tasks which are easy for them are also easy for others.[1]
Dunning and Kruger have postulated that the effect is the result of internal illusion in those of low ability and external misperception in those of high ability: ‘The miscalibration of the incompetent stems from an error about the self, whereas the miscalibration of the highly competent stems from an error about others.'[1]”
The antidote to the DK Effect is self-knowledge and humility. If one is truthful with oneself, one will not tend to overestimate or underestimate ones abilities in relation to others. So, the first thing one must learn to do if one wishes to serve the Church, is to learn to be honest with oneself. Unfortunately, many people are caught up in, what St. Teresa of Avila described as, “questions of honor” – of looking good and respectable. Christ looked neither good nor respectable on the Cross, but His was the supreme expression of a rightly-ordered life. “Humility, humility. I say it, again, humility,” was St. Teresa’s cry. Understanding that one virtue, rightly, and developing it, will do more to right the Church than anything else.
Do what you must, but if you would be free of anxiety, learn to see the truth, about yourself, about others, about God. Truth and humility go hand-in-hand. One cannot be truly committed to the one without being committed to the other. Today, for many, truth and humility have become a four-letter synonym for self. No one owns the truth, just as no one owns Christ. Our calling is to merely follow Christ, to follow the Truth, and let Him take it from there.
The Chicken
The official Catechism for the Ukrainian-Greek Catholic Church is also finally out in English. I think it’s a solid companion volume, and it does address some additional issues that simply weren’t on *any* decent Catholic’s radar when the current main Catechism was published.
[Thanks for that alert.]
In other Ukrainian Catholic news, I see that, just a few days ago, a new Eparch was appointed to Chicago. Congratulations to the Ukrainian Catholics of that Eparchy. HERE
I am very confused. i have recently come back to the Church but 23 yrs ago was married outside of the Church–my husband and I at the time lapsed Catholics. The marriage was abusive; i contemplated divorce. he is ill now i must take care of him but because it was a celibate marriage–it was disordered due to mental problems, etc–can i get an annulment? i would like to be free to remarry at some point though i would not abandon looking after him. i am so confused. my pastor wanted me to go to the diocese originally to see about making my marriage valid but it was too abusive to stay but now he is too ill for me to leave yet i want to be free, i would still make sure he is looked after. i find no clarity, so appreciate an informed opinion. my staying would be of charity sake, he doesnt have trustworthy family at all.
[May I recommend that you contact your local parish priest? Make an appointment to see him and explain the whole situation. He will then be able to help you.]
Eugene :
but some actually walked to the altar where they picked the consecrated host from a little ciborium left on the altar
This is the most stunningly gross abuse of the Mass among the several that you’ve described — the others are basically vices of form ; this is a form of blasphemy against the Sacrament of Holy Orders, against the priesthood as such, against the Eucharistic Mass, and likely against the Real Presence and so against Christ himself.
The excellent English translation of the Roman Catechism by Dominican Fathers McHugh and Callan (1923) is freely accessible online, from a couple of websites:
HathiTrust
Internet Modern History Sourcebook
The scanned version on HathiTrust also includes a fine introductory essay on the history of Catholic catechesis.
Thank you for the exhortation, Father Z. I’ll start the Catechism online until I get a printed copy. I’m on my third round through the Bible and I have read some Kreeft and Kevin Orlin Johnson, but I’ve much to learn.
My young friend,
I hope Fr. Z doesn’t find my comments too offensive, since I’ve read his wonderful blog for a decade, since Summorum Pontificum.
With that said. You are going to be uncharitably attacked by baby boomers on here. It sucks, and it has majorly turned me off from Catholicism for years. Don’t let that happen to you. The traditional priests will keep the flame, and in time we will have enough power to actually defend ourselves.
Many boomers don’t understand our era. They understand losing what you have, but not losing what you would have had, and having no future whatsoever. Thus they will insist on an artificial (to us), inauthentic, and cowardly (to us, again) concept of “charity,” that would basically produce the same results as the last 40 years; the left taking more and more while pearl-clutching “cuckservatives” stand by and argue with each other about the rules. In politics they’ll bring up Hitler as nauseam. Here they will use “charity” as the same stick to beat you with.
For someone with small, children, that’s not acceptable. Not in politics and not in the Church. There really is nothing left to lose at this point. Being called uncharitable/wayciss/sexist/homophobic really means nothing to me and the rest of us who are unashamed to be “alt-right.” What they don’t understand is that in the minds of leftists, simply opposing even the slightest speck of their agenda automatically makes you Westboro Baptist Church. There can be no rational dialogue with the left.
In the United States (I don’t know if you’re American), we are headed for a hot civil war. Our “John Brown” event has already occurred this year at the University of Berkeley. The same with the Church, though we are aided with divine protection in that instance.
So please, stand fast. Don’t lose the fire and the zeal! Give the left wingers the same amount of charity you would a home-invader or child-killer, as that is what many of them essentially are at this point. Whether it’s subjecting European children to rape and murder by Muslim “refugees,” or refusing to allow the TLM to return and revitalize Western civilization, it’s the same deal. They are close to destroying the West and they are anxious.
The old style “conservatives” have to know deep down that they deserve to lose power. You can’t really hate them; their constant pearl-clutching, demands for a vague, imprudent form of “charity” (what about charity to our children, and those who are misled by the lies of heretics) is really more about maintaining control, which is futile. The Alt-Right will fight with the left and win, same with the SSPX and other trad institutions. I go to a traditional parish and there is a veritable army of young priests and seminarians, head by one of the wisest veteran priests in the world. Let’s be sure to pray for them. We will need them to be strong to lead us through what will soon be a very trying time!
But sure enough, all we have to do is survive. We didn’t even have Trump and Le Pen four years ago, when all seemed lost. Heck, could you imagine being a traditionalist in 1983, before the “indult” masses even? Eventually we will have a Burke as Pope. We just have to hold on until the changes come about.
I have to say, what you’ve written is the opposite of what needs to happen from my point of view. I’m sure you’re a perfectly nice, knowledgable person, but since this issue has kept me out of the Church in the past, I feel compelled to speak. I will try to be charitable.
“Imperious” young men are exactly what we need. We need thousands and maybe even millions of them. They settled this continent, Christianized heathens all over the world, and are the essential building block of civilization. They crushed the axis powers, protected the Church from Islamic conquest, then Protestants, then revolutionaries.
I see you’ve mentioned Miss Manners. Forgive me but that simply seems like pearl-clutching in 2017. We have no more need of miss manners than we do of a class on VCR repair. Do you lambast heretics about manners? The leftists who staged an abortion of baby Jesus outside of planned parenthood? What about those advocating for the destruction of Churches in Europe, or a million heterodox Catholics who slander traditionalists right and left? It seems like these conversations are more about control than effectiveness; it really is time for the older generation of the right to yield.
Conquistadors were “imperious young men” and they were great. They caused the greatest mass conversion since the Roman Empire.
“Imperious” young men like myself (ten years ago) were perfectly welcome to blow the heads off Iraqis and lose a hand, foot, or worse, and no one asked us about “manners.”
Some of you guys kill me with that stuff.
Truth be told it’s been the biggest stumbling block for my faith and I know many others. Who wants to join a Church that is the spiritual equivalent of Jeb?
You seem like a good person.
No offense, but this is exactly why you can’t be tolerated by so many.
dr.Lloyd, are you new on here? Would you please adress the person who’s comment you are commenting. Just use their handle. It’s very confusing otherwise. Your first post seems to be intended for YoungLatinMassGuy, the second aimed at PTK-70 (the Miss Manner reference), but who on Earth “can’t be tolerated by so many”??
“If in reading the CCC, you find teachings which you don’t agree with, not just which puzzle you but rather which you truly reject, then there’s the door. ”
Any comments regarding CCC 841? I have found many saints’ comments regarding Islam/Muslims to be in pretty much direct contradiction.
[Perhaps you are asking this out of a sincere desire to understand. I might, therefore, point out that, while Muslims call Judaism and Christianity “religions of the book”, the same CCC says that “the Christian faith is not a ‘religion of the book’. Christianity is the religion of the ‘Word’ of God”, “Logos”. which right away poses a differentiation. Furthermore, we understand that Jews and Christians worship the same God, the un-created Creator, even though Jews have an incomplete understanding of God as Triune. Muslims seem also to worship the un-created Creator, although they have a faulty understanding of God’s divine nature. Inadequate or faulty understanding of God does not automatically mean that Jews and Muslims do not worship the same God. Mind you, it is possible that Muslim theology of the godhead might be so very different from Christian understanding, that they are not to be reconciled. I am not an expert on Islam, but I am not sure that all Muslims among themselves have the same view of their “allah”. That apart, I believe that they all think that “allah” is, at least, the un-created Creator. In the matter of worshiping the “same God”, I remember one analogy which I read somewhere. It sticks in my mind because it appealed to the DC comics I read as a kid (I have a soft-spot for Superman). We know that Lois Lane loves Superman. However, Lois doesn’t yet know that Clark Kent is Superman’s alter-ego. For Lois, Superman is just a kryptonian, a strange visitor from another planet. However, at the same time Lana Lang loves Clark Kent but she doesn’t know that Clark is also Superman. For Lana, he’s her human childhood sweetheart who left Smallville to work for the Daily Planet in Metropolis. Do Lois and Lana love two different men? No. Even though both Lois and Lana have faulty or incomplete knowledge of the subject of their affections, the Man of Steel from Krypton and the Ace Reporter of the Daily Planet are one and the same person. However, Superman’s earthly mother, Martha Kent, knows that her adopted son who came to your planet in his spaceship, is both Clark Kent and Superman. She has far more complete knowledge. Lois, Lana, and Martha all love Clark/Superman, though in different ways. Similarly, it could be argued that Jews and Muslims worship the same God as Christians. That is one analogy. For my part, I struggle with the issues opened up by Benedict XVI in his amazing Regensburg Address. Benedict pointed to a fundamental difference in Christian and Muslim views of the godhead, the difference between Logos and Will. If divinity is Logos, then God and the cosmos He created cannot be inherently contradictory or constantly changing. But some (most? all?) Muslims would probably hold that Logos, a norm of reason, would place limitations on the godhead. Can God be held to any kind of rule or standard or order? Hence, the godhead is Will, rather than Reason, above Logos. If divinity is Will, then everything is a moving target, shifting, according to “allah’s will”. What is good can be evil and vice versa, and we, who act according to “allah’s will” can do pretty much anything, including acts of violence, etc. There is no firm grounding for morals. Nor is there a strong motive to seek knowledge outside that “will”, which is expressed in various ways in “the book”. Returning to the point at the top, we learn to read the CCC intelligently, understanding that not every paragraph has the same weight because not every teaching has the same weight. It has ever been so. There are a few issues in the Catechism which the Church is still working through, such as relations with Islam, capital punishment, etc. Finally, as the Church and the SSPX work through issues concerning Nostra aetate (footnoted in the paragraph you cited) we recognize that in some matters there is a lot of gray which within which we are free to move. That is not the case with many, indeed most, other issues in the CCC.]